Restoring the Lord's Life and Power to our Congregations
“War on Israel in December 2012”
Who Are These Prophets?
Report and Comments by Hannah Weiss
In keeping with our survey’s first suggested method for validating a prophecy, I checked the track records of the prophets who were behind this joint prediction. If any readers find an inaccuracy in this file, please send me documentation and I will be glad to correct my report. HW -- 02/2013
I had received first news of the “war on Israel in Dec. 2012” prophecy from Jill Shannon, but Jill did not (at that time) claim to have received this word from God. She was relaying the predictions of others, whom she identified as “several of the most trustworthy prophets on the earth.” When I contacted her in August 2012 and asked for their names, she promptly identified them, along with heartfelt endorsements of their prophetic abilities:
RESPONSES FROM THE PROPHETS:
Between August and November 2012, I wrote to each one of these four men, asking them to confirm their involvement in the December 2012 Israel-at-war prediction. I did not get a reply from any of them.
I managed to find their original prophecies anyway with God’s help. (Go here: ) During my search, I picked up other prophetic words, teachings and activities from each that provided a wider view of them as prophets and spiritual teachers. This was how I discovered that they are all colleagues in ministry who endorse one another.
The rest of this file presents the track records of each one, with quotes that show their ministry priorities, the way they use scripture, and examples of problematic teaching.
Executive Summary of Prophetic Track Records
(for those who want to see if it’s worth wading through the documentation)
Jill Shannon is the teacher who published the warning of the “war on Israel” that reached me (via several other people). She is an Israeli who teaches Christians in other countries about the Jewish feasts and Israel’s role in the last days. She also writes and produces worship music.
One prophetic prediction by her related directly to Sundar’s “Metagoshin” event, in which she organized an advance preparation for that day; in Jill’s view it was a time of “early judgment” (presenting oneself for inspection by God in order to avoid a stricter judgment later).
Her instructions to the churches were legalistic, requiring children as young as 7 to remain absolutely quiet for an entire hour, and the implied penalty for anyone not cooperating carried a spirit of condemnation contrary to New Testament freedom. The similarity to rabbinic interpretations of Yom Kippur, along with an emphasis on outward performance, indicates a Judaizing spirit. This direction was carried further by Sundar in his own message during his “Trumpet” conference on Yom Kippur 2011.
After the “war on Israel” prophecy failed, Jill remained loyal to the group of prophets. She sent out two defenses of Bob Misst in particular, identifying herself with him as a source (or at least a co-tester) of the prophecy. My private contact with her indicates that she sees no reason to repent of her support for these men, nor does she allow for the possibility that they might be in error.
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Bob Misst is based in New Zealand but began his ministry in India. He is the primary source for the “war in Israel” prophecy, in that his prediction included dates and other specifics. He works closely with Jill Shannon, and often endorses her in his messages. Bob sometimes speaks at Sundar’s prophetic conferences, but he also appears independently as a teacher. Bob’s niche is in leading intercessory prayer based on angel-escorted “visits to the Divine Council in heaven” (shortened to DC), where he receives advance warning of events about to happen, relayed straight from the Old Testament prophets, the “24 elders”, various angels, the apostles and Jesus.
This “Divine Council” was his source for the prophecy that prompted our survey, as well as for the later prediction of Israel’s “scourging” on 10/dec/2012. He taught that “to ignore something that Heaven wants me to tell you is like for me to write my own death sentence;” yet he did not obey the heavenly order to tell the people of Israel about that “Heavenly decree”.
Bob’s failed revelations have been rewritten or ignored by him and his supporters. Despite claims of successful prophecy, numerous real events did not match his self-promoting reports. He also misrepresented the above-mentioned “Metagoshin” event to audiences 6 months later. He has perverted scripture to support strange teachings. He has led groups in guided “visits” to his “Divine Council”, using techniques familiar to shamans for achieving altered states and encouraging out-of-body experiences. He relies on psychological manipulation of the audience rather than the Holy Spirit to “open” them to new revelation, belittling those who gave “wrong” answers to his prompting and motivating them to obey God from fear and guilt rather than a love-response to grace.
Nevertheless, he is an honored teacher at various prayer centers in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the Philippines. Bob has a “prophetic school” with pay-as-you-go courses taught by himself and Jill. He recently published a book describing worship music he “heard in heaven” in 2010, and he formed a partnership with Jill to write music that supposedly captures this unique sound.
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Neville Johnson is based in Australia, and has a “prophetic school” of his own called The Academy of Light. He claims to have received visits from Jesus, Enoch, the patriarch Joseph and others since the 1970s. His prophetic pronouncements, which tend to be optimistic, are consistently left unfulfilled. His predictions of worldwide revival and glory for the church date back to at least 2007, the year when he wrote: “Revival will no longer be delayed.”
His promotion of the global New Age as the destiny of the church dates back to 2001. Neville endorses Sundar’s “new gospel” but he defines it in New-Age terms as well. His description of prophetic power resembles witchcraft – where the “vibrations” in spoken words and unspoken thoughts produce “ wavelengths [that] can be either destructive or healing…. this energy can only be seen in the realm of the spirit and can be used for good or evil.” He has given an occultic twist to Yeshua’s transfiguration, His future reign over the Kingdom, and other scriptural concepts.
Neville enjoys public endorsements from Sundar, Bob and Jill, each of whom have repeated some of his prophetic words and teachings. He speaks at conferences along with Sundar and has appeared in the Philippines, the USA, and Australia. He teaches a global audience via his YouTube videos.
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Maurice Sklar, an accomplished violinist, is also a prophet with years of colorful predictions in his repertoire. These include a well-publicized list of predictions in 2005 containing both disasters and revivals. It took three years for Maurice to admit that none of it had taken place. He apologized but insisted that the worldwide Body was responsible – God had cancelled every single one of those events in response to their prayers (including the revivals).
From that point on, he appeared more cautious in giving specifics, and (except for the prophecy about Israel that concerns us) he focused mostly on predicting revival for the USA. Nevertheless, he often contradicted himself in the predictions themselves. The “great awakening in America” would be either (2005) a “false” revival of morality, or (1/2009) a “great awakening that won’t be a counterfeit”, which will come with (6/2009) “the next major judgment” of natural disasters. The disasters themselves are either necessary to bring repentance, or avoidable through intercession, depending on which prediction you look at.
Maurice also has out-of-body experiences from time to time, including one recent occasion where he was taken to “the planet heaven”, attended a concert given by Gustav Mahler in his (Maurice’s) honor, and toured his own mansion which he described in lavish detail. Although the message of that “visit” was to emphasize that “the Lord is coming soon,” the vision focused on Maurice more than on the Lord Himself.
He was not present at the Israel conference where Sundar gave his “war on Israel” prediction, but a few days earlier Maurice released his own prediction of that war, which differs from the scenario of the other 3 prophets in nearly every detail. (read it here.)
Maurice appears to be in high demand for concerts, tours and recordings, with bookings listed a year in advance. He often appears with musician Paul Wilbur and combines praise and worship with teaching and healing services. This year Maurice will be in Israel twice.
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Sundar Selvaraj (“Sadhu” is a title, not part of his name) is a secondary source of the “war on Israel” prophecy. He is a prolific speaker, and many of his pronouncements can be found in YouTube clips which run on for an hour or more. These are usually reports (described in colorful detail) of visits from Jesus or angels, who give him predictions, visions and out-of-body experiences. According to Sundar himself (Open Heavens conference, day 1, time-mark 1hr:20min), he has been having these visitations since January 1984, when “John the beloved [apostle]” came to him.
He conducts prophetic conferences in several locations, including Israel. His ministry owns a private satellite TV station and a custom-built conference center in India. Sundar’s ministry partner, Vincent Selvakumar, often co-teaches with him and gives prophecies of his own (which generally supplement those of Sundar).
Sundar and his partner Vincent both have a consistent record of failed predictions, scriptures twisted out of context, and teachings not grounded in scripture at all. They are currently promoting a “gospel different from what the apostles preached” (Sundar’s words), in which the dispensation of grace is replaced by “a new season” which they term “the third dimension”. Sundar is energetically promoting a “gospel tract” in which sin is not mentioned and the only “repentance” required is to believe in their (incomplete) list of signs that herald the Lord’s second coming.
Both errors (failed prophecy and false gospel) were integrated by these men into a dramatic prediction that the worldwide church would enter that “new/third prophetic dimension” on 8/oct/2011, during a heavenly ordained new “holy convocation of the Lord” named “Metagoshin”, which coincided with the Jewish Yom Kippur. The promised “power” and its sensational “accompanying signs” did not materialize, either on that day or on any day until now.
Despite these scriptural red-flags, the duo has a faithful following in the Philippines, India, the USA and other locations. Sundar has held several conferences in Israel. An unknown number of viewers watch the teachings of Sundar/Vincent broadcasted by Sundar’s Angel TV station, and receive their “Jesus Ministry” newsletters. Sundar’s activities are financially supported at a level that – according to Sundar – has enabled him totally debt-free acquisitions and operations for the last 30 years (listen to him at mark 1:35:00 to 1:39:00 in his 2011 Open Heavens Conference, day 3 – linked below).
Less than a year after the ministry center in India was built, Sundar raised another US $900,000 for an apartment in the southern Jerusalem neighborhood of Malha. This “house of the prophets”, costing $1.3 million, is to serve as a “supernatural portal” for receiving visits from spirit beings, as well as the HQ of “the two witnesses” of Revelation who will appear “very soon”. Sundar’s speaking schedule continues to flourish, including several conferences scheduled for 2013.
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If this is enough information for you, feel free to skip directly to the Conclusion.
Who Are These Prophets? The Documentation
Although Jill describes her music as “prophetic”, the lyrics are taken or paraphrased from the written Scriptures. Most of the prophecies found on her site (http://www.coffeetalkswithmessiah.com) are reports from others. Jill is reluctant to call herself a prophet. But I did find a “prophetic word” authored by her, and it relates closely to others we will examine in this report.
Christianized Rabbinic Legalism
It was a call to churches (dated 9/2010) to present themselves for an “early judgment day” during the Jewish fall feasts.
It was emphasized that the presentation to God “MUST be completed by the sunset of September 18, 2010 [Yom Kippur]. I believe there is a “cut-off” point for the church at sunset, the end of Yom Kippur.” (emphasis hers).
There were to be no exemptions, and children as young as 7 were “required to come and remain silent for this hour.” There was an implied warning that anyone (including the children) who spoke at any time during the designated hour, or who did not participate, would experience negative consequences.
There was also a distinction made between those churches who would comply with this call and those who would ignore it (emphasis hers):
To take part in this early judgment is a GIFT and a PRIVILEGE. This is a Grace to every church that will do this. Those who will not heed this word will be judged differently. I do not know how, but I know it will be worse for them.
Since no participating churches were identified, and no specific consequences were predicted for obeying or not obeying, it was impossible to test whether this word was confirmed by concrete results. But I have two general evaluations, based on both spiritual sensing and sound thinking:
1- Anyone reading this “call” will be struck by the preoccupation with performance requirements and time pressures. It carries a legalism which is even stronger than the rabbinic brand (for example, rabbinic tradition does not require 7-year-old children to keep absolutely quiet for an entire hour, nor does it time group prayer so tightly by the clock). More important, the kind of “grace” that rewards outward conformity rather than heart attitude does not express the Lord’s character.
2- This “judgment day” for the church is clearly linked to the Jewish (rabbinic) interpretation of Yom Kippur as a day of judgment. The “call” carries the message of both “privilege” for submitting to it and a “worse” position for rejecting it. These are the elements of a Judaizing spirit. Paul was emphatic about the Gentiles receiving all the spiritual advantages of grace through faith in Messiah alone, and he upheld individual freedom of conscience in observing ceremonial days or not observing them.
Partnership in Promoting New Revelation
As we will see later, this “call” prepared the way for a declaration by Sundar Selvaraj and his ministry partner Vincent Selvakumar the following Yom Kippur. At that time, they announced a new (unscriptural) addition to God’s Holy Convocations, which likewise integrated rabbinic teaching and carried even stronger legalistic threats of judgment.
Jill’s support in preparing the way for Sundar and company was not accidental; the similarity between her “call” and Sundar’s was the result of a conscious partnership that dated back to 2009 at least. See Jill’s report of the Open Heavens Conference that year. (http://coffeetalkswithmessiah.com/assets/openheavens09report.pdf )
Interestingly, at that time the focus was clearly on the city of Jerusalem (color emphasis mine):
All of the speakers at this conference told those of us who had come to Jerusalem, that this great last days’ outpouring would begin in Jerusalem, just as it did on the day of Pentecost. This is the city where the Lord CHOSE for His Name to dwell. This is the place the Lord has chosen, and that is why His Holy Spirit was poured out first in this city, and will be poured out again on this city to prepare the whole world for the second coming of the Lord Yeshua. Sadhu was shown this by the Lord personally.
Yet two years later, that “outpouring” – by then labeled with the strange name “Metagoshin” – was declared by Sundar and his partner Vincent Selvakumar to have taken place in India, and God’s choice of a dwelling place had been transferred to Sundar’s new prophetic center (see the quotes in Sundar’s section).
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Bob Misst and Jill Shannon co-teach at many conferences, and they work together in producing worship music and teaching via Bob’s “prophetic school”.
“Taking his stand on visions he has seen…” (Col.2:18)
Bob’s spiritual authority as a teacher rests on tales of his experiences with a heavenly forum he calls “the Divine Council”. I will not go into the scriptural problems with that teaching – you can see an overview given by Bob at the 23rd National Prayer Gathering (Philippines, April 2012) part 3 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZME6GKrANNc ).
In short, he credits a PhD dissertation on “Elohim and the Divine Council” as his “confirmation from the Lord”, but compared to the original research (which compared and contrasted Old Testament and pagan concepts of divine beings), Bob distorts the idea linguistically, logically and theologically. More to the point, the pronouncements of this Council in heaven have no effect on earth. But Bob takes every opportunity to introduce others to the Council.
Empty Claims of Intercessory Achievement
In a blog post, Bob reproduced excerpts from the Introduction to a book written by himself, which among other things describe “real-life episodes of Bob’s years of experience in prophetic intercession for the nations.” Following are two examples that apply to Israel, compared with the real events (color emphasis mine):
During the National Days of Prayer [November 2009], the Holy Spirit caused me to intercede for a good bit of the night for the two nations, Israel and New Zealand, with deep groans in the spirit and often encountering spiritual battles. The next morning… I shared that I had been constrained by the Holy Spirit to pray through the night for Israel and our nation, New Zealand. This opened a way for the entire body of intercessors and prophets to intercede for Israel and New Zealand to be related internationally and politically….
Early in 2010, New Zealand re-opened its ties with Israel and re-established the Israeli Consulate, which had been closed down by the previous government. This was a fulfillment of our prophetic intercessions, which greatly encouraged us.
Whereas Bob implied here that the closure of the Israeli Consulate (sic, it was the Embassy) was due to a break in diplomatic ties with New Zealand, and that his intercession caused the two countries “to be related” again, the local and Israeli press revealed a very different situation.
Israel had closed the Embassy back in 2002 for financial reasons, and diplomatic relations had been kept alive and well since 2005 through Israel’s ambassador in Australia. More significant, the reopening of the Embassy in New Zealand had been announced in May 2009, six months before Bob waged his prophetic all-night “spiritual battle”… and the new Embassy actually didn’t open until 19/apr/2010, six months afterwards. (Sources:
New Zealand Herald, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10639422
Ynet News Israel, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3886929,00.html )
To pray for one’s nation to support Israel is praiseworthy, but to take credit for a development already in motion is not.
In the above book quote, Bob also claimed credit for defusing “another Middle-East war” about to erupt over the Gaza Flotilla affair (31/may/2010):
At that meeting, which took place in February 2010, the Spirit of the Lord changed the agenda through a prophetic word, asking us to pray for Israel, and asking the leaders to make a covenant to pray for Israel. This word was confirmed by at least three prophets present. We saw the reason for this in the next few weeks. The Gaza “flotilla” problem suddenly raised its ugly head, which brought the world to the brink of another Middle-East war. Fervent intercession went up for this, from the prophets and intercessors in New Zealand (we were covenanted to pray for Israel), as well as from around the world, and we saw things change.
There was nothing “sudden” about the Gaza flotilla problem. The “Free Gaza Movement” had been sending provocative flotillas to run Israel’s sea blockade of Gaza since August 2008. Despite his “fervent intercession”, this flotilla (the sixth attempt) turned out to be the most violent clash to date. Nevertheless, there was no hint that any state in the region was prepared to go to war over it. Even Turkey, the biggest loser in that incident, threatened only to break ties with Israel (following a trend that had already started in December 2008 when Israel first blockaded Gaza).
(see http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/gaza-flotilla-raid-turkey-prime-minister-israel and
The only “change” Bob actually “saw” was in the New Zealand media coverage of the Gaza Flotilla Affair, after he challenged them by sending factual documentation to the TV channel director and threatened to appeal to his nation’s broadcasting authority. (They simply dropped the subject.) This effort, although commendable, was no different from the activism of non-believers who fight biased reporting… and the result wasn’t even remarkable from an earthly standpoint, let alone the example of victorious intercession that Bob makes it out to be.
Promoting the “Metagoshin” Fantasy as Fact
The dramatic introduction of the “new prophetic anointing”, which supposedly arrived at the “heavenly ordained” convocation which these prophets call “Metagoshin”, is examined below in Sundar’s section. Bob’s description here as an eyewitness to that event included remarkable claims that rest on his testimony alone.
(20:30) “I remember when I was at Metagoshin [with Sundar and Vincent, October 2011] and they began the anointing service… I saw 2 of the 24 elders standing next to Sadhu and Vincent pouring heavenly oil into their bowls… their oil will never run dry… and they got the heavenly Metagoshin blessing oil. You must have seen the videos, the power of God – people were lifted off the ground the way they were anointed.
Unfortunately, the “videos” Bob mentions here were never uploaded to the Internet, unlike so many of Sundar’s and Vincent’s other gatherings. We can safely assume that if people had really been “lifted off the ground” or had witnessed anything close to “the power of God” during that conference, these videos would have been promoted worldwide.
As it was, Bob says in the above video that even the pastor next to him could not see anything supernatural, and could only rely on Bob’s descriptions of “the 2 elders” and the “heavenly oil”.
Bob had endorsed all the unfulfilled predictions and unbiblical teachings presented by Sundar and Vincent at that gathering: the “Metagoshin” day marking a new era for the church, the beginning of “the final dispensation” which replaces the age of grace, and the calling of God’s people to be “time-changers”. (go here to see bits of Bob’s message at the “Metagoshin” conference:
Although no video exists, a transcription of the event (made incidentally by the same pastor who had been sitting next to Bob) reveals that by the end of the conference, the promise of “power” was repeated by Vincent, still in future tense. And yet speaking in the Philippines six months later, Bob gave the impression that the power had fallen and the new era had begun exactly as predicted.
Bob speaks matter-of-factly about his sterling track record as a prophet. He claims that the prophet Isaiah is his personal mentor, and that Bob’s visits to the Divine Council result in powerful intercessory acts:
(“Equipping” session, day 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gmwQD9Y0Ag)
(18:30) When I do something supernaturally in the spirit, I see the results on the earth almost instantly. God has never made me wait too long.
This comment, made in 04/2012, carries a self-confidence that ought to raise questions among the recipients of the “apology” letter co-authored by Bob and Jill less than a year later. In that letter of 12/12, he confessed that he had to “seek the Lord for understanding” on why the word concerning Israel’s day to “be scourged” did not come to pass. As I write, he is content to wait for something that “must happen” in December 2012 to show signs ofpossibly beginning to happen sometime over the next 3 months. Far from expecting “almost instant results”, suddenly “the date is not important.” (Go here for the full text.)
Distortion of Scripture to Support “New Revelation”
In a teaching given 4/2012 at a National Prayer Gathering in the Philippines, (session 2, part 1), Bob corrupts the pure word of God. He states that Samuel “took a priest from the local area” along with him to help anoint David, using this as an example of how the priest and the prophet work together. “And God’s doing a similar thing these days.”
(second video in the list, time-mark 3:45)
Anyone reading the passage Bob referred to (1 Sam.16) can see that Samuel went alone to anoint David; and anyone who knows the life of Samuel will remember that he served as both prophet and priest, having been “lent to the Lord” by his mother to serve with Eli the priest.
While this might be forgiven as an absent-minded mistake, the heavy rewrite of the Lord’s parable of the ten virgins a few minutes later is a deliberate distortion. Its only purpose is to serve the agenda of leading believers to “jump” out of the age of grace:
(15:30) “We are taught that oil is the anointing… but there is also the oil of revelation. They [the foolish virgins] did not carry with them the revelation that God released in their time and their age to help them pass the midnight hour so that they would to be able to meet their bridegrooms [sic]. The oil ran out, revelation was not there.”
(17:20) We have seasons and times and ages in the scriptures… this parable tells us that in every season, age and time, God releases revelation for us to make the jump into the right age, the right season.
(19:10) “Now we come from this age of grace into the age of the last days… and we in the age of grace also have to make this jump. God is releasing enough revelation for us to make the jump. But it requires faith, it requires trust and that will carry us through. And that’s what the whole parable of the 10 virgins was all about. Five carried with them the revelation to make the jump, five did not, they got lost in the darkness.”
(20:00) (quotes Isa.60 – thick darkness will cover the earth) “But the glory of Yahweh will shine on those who will receive the revelation and walk by the revelation and move by the revelation… Are you going to be people that will walk by the revelation? Or are you those who are going to be stuck with the old revelation that kept you in the period of grace?”
(21:23) “So revelation is the oil that will take us into the next age… Revelation is simply God’s truth that He releases to the Bride for a particular age and time. Do you know everything about God?”
In the above excerpt, we can see examples of manipulation. The pressure is strong to accept the teaching: no one wants to be “stuck with old” things, or “get lost in the darkness”, or be known as “foolish”. If his listeners don’t have a firm understanding of the parable he mangled (Bob didn’t bother to read it from the Bible), they won’t remember that no one in the parable “got lost in the dark” because they didn’t “make the jump into the right age.” They were left outside the wedding feast, knocking on the door in vain, because the Bridegroom did not know them.
Any who are inclined to reject this new interpretation will be silenced by the implied accusation of arrogance and unteachability: “Do you know everything about God?” This is a rationale that Bob uses repeatedly.
[Prayer Gathering, part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bt4Vbjy01k&feature=youtu.be ]
(8:10) “Some people say… we don’t need further revelation… Can everybody know everything about God in their lifetime? No, so we need the revelation of God.”
Bob Misst uses humor to soften up resistance: [same video]
(5:20) “I like to begin sometimes with a joke so we all get a bit loosened up and then we can receive God’s revelation.”
Sometimes his “humor” has a biting edge to it. He has belittled his listeners when they were foolish enough to give the “wrong” answer to his prompting questions:
[part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zZ-h5u0dog ]
(17:00) “While we are called the sons of God, can we say we are like Jesus?” (The audience calls out, “yes!”)
“Are you like Jesus?” (“Yes!”)
“So you are all Jesus here? You’d better change your names… We are not Jesus - you’d better do your Bible study again, because next year when I come back and ask you again, you’d better give me the right answer.”
This is not the character of God, who responds to those who lack wisdom by “giving to all generously and without reproach.” (James 1:5) Regardless, it was Bob who needed to refresh his Bible knowledge – the answer from the audience was legitimate: “It is no longer I who live, but Messiah lives in me.” (Gal.2:20) “ He who receives you receives Me.” (Matt.10:40) But they got the message that they “had better give” the expected answer; and a minute later they were tested again:
(18:30) I’m introducing you to something very new… The members of God’s household are called the Divine Council… You may not understand the meaning, that’s okay… We are called to be members of what?
(One side answers, “divine council.”)
This side is very good, there’s more revelation on this side, let’s stretch out our hands and pray that revelation will come on this [other] side.
In a later teaching session during that same Philippine conference, the audience came better prepared with the “revelation” to answer Bob’s prompting, which began as soon as he took the microphone.
(“Equipping with Robert Misst” 14/apr/2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y39kfm90KU )
(0:15) “Are you going to keep Him [the Lord] happy, by doing all that He wants you to do?” (Audience answers: “Yes!”)
“Yesterday evening when we were doing the Passover on the stage, we had some very important guests [besides the visible ones]. Did you notice them?” (Audience answers, “yes” with some uncertainty, and Bob makes a face.)
“Whom did you see?” (“Jesus.”)
“You saw Jesus. Anybody else?” (“Angels.”)
“You saw angels. Anybody else?” (The audience has run out of answers; some laugh sheepishly.)
“Hmm? Whom did you see?” (“The prophets.”)
“You saw the prophets. Which prophets did you see? Prophet Robert Misst?” (Laughter, and no one tries to answer anymore.)
At this point, the audience was anxious to please Bob but had no clue what the “right” answer is. Finally he told them: “The 24 Elders [of Revelation 4] came yesterday,” and the audience broke the tension with applause.
Bob then told them that the prophet Isaiah (his “mentor”) reported to him that “all heaven stopped” – at an explicit command from Jesus – to watch the Philippine celebration of Passover, and that the 24 Elders wanted to attend this momentous event on earth. Having been flattered with visions of their importance, despite their inability to see what Bob saw, the audience was reassured and ready for more “revelation”. This breaking down and rebuilding of personal responses is used in many cults.
Serving God from Fear and Guilt
[same video as above]
(5:20) “For me to ignore something that Heaven wants me to tell you is like for me to write my own death sentence.”
(26:10) “You will be asked to do things. God takes you through a test, He lets you fail… He’ll tell you that you failed, and you can ask forgiveness. But if you persistently fail, then the gift is taken away, because you’re not walking in it.”
(27:15) “You will begin to see angels flying around…That’s the beginning - the next thing, the angels will come to you with a message… you have to do it.”
(30:40) You do the act, and a lot of people are set free; you don’t do the act, and a lot of people are robbed of their salvation in Christ.”
[another part of that session - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gmwQD9Y0Ag]
(5:15) “Disobedience sets back God’s program, and He has to reprogram everything. He has to keep programming our lives every time we change.”
(8:00) The enemy is very concerned… you become a target. They are waiting for you to make one mistake and come out of your security…
(14:00) Sometimes we do things so badly… we come with our agendas, and the angels and saints put their heads down and cry…that’s why it’s taking so many years for the Lord to come back – because we are not ready.
This then is Bob's motivation for obedience and faithfulness: the fear that God will take back gifts He gave you due to failures that He allowed, that He will kill you for failing to speak, or that the enemy will get you as soon as you make one mistake… the obligation to do whatever the angels tell you… the guilt at causing heavenly beings to cry, making so much “extra work” for God, and even delaying Yeshua’s return, because of your human failings.
Gone is the “ high priest who can sympathize with our weaknesses,” as well as the confidence to approach “the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.” (Heb.4:15-16) This is the inevitable result of declaring the age of grace to be over.
Use of Shamanic Techniques to Achieve Altered States
The following glowing report is from a Philippine group, “Eagle Christian”, which regularly hosts Bob Misst as a revered teacher. They had just been on a trip to heaven under the guidance of Bob.
An Encounter with the Prophetic Council (February 19, 2012)
This particular retreat was made special as the team was joined by Prophet Robert Misst of New Zealand to teach the IFP Board and the AHI leaders on the truth about the heavenly prophetic council and usher them to an encounter with them….
Prophet Robert Misst shared powerful revelation teachings on the scriptural foundation of the Last Days ministry of the Prophetic Council in heaven and also taught the team on the seven Spirits of God as spoken of in Isaiah 11: 1-3. The team was then led by Prophet Robert into an actual experience of encountering the Prophetic Council for the next three nights of the whole five days of the retreat from 12:00 midnight to 3:00 am.
It was a new but extremely rewarding and enlightening experience for Kuya Dan and the IFP/AHI group. As they sat still for a whole three hours and acknowledge the presence of the Prophetic Council, their spiritual senses (spiritual hearing, discernment and seeing in accordance with Heb 5:14 and Eph 1:17-23; Rev 2: 11) were sharpened that some actually “hear”, “see” and “feel” the voice, the form and image and the presence of the heavenly prophets. They actually receive specific directional messages from the divine Prophetic Council which they wrote in the notebooks provided for such purpose. When Prophet Robert revealed the messages to him by prophet Isaiah, Jeremiah and Zechariah, the messages received by the team exactly were consistent with them.
Discerning believers will wonder, among other things, why this “revelation” needed to be experienced in the dead of night rather than during normal teaching hours.
Most shamans will recognize the technique – prolonged stillness and silence, together with sleep-cycle disturbances several nights in a row – as a recipe for inducing altered states of consciousness (encouraging a half-awake dream state, and weakening the alert state where conscious restraint, thought progression and critical observation occur). Among occult practitioners, this is a drug-free way to prepare for out-of-body experiences and other kinds of contact with the unseen spirit realm. The fact that it really produces extrasensory experiences which can be shared by a group explains its worldwide popularity.
This is where we must apply the scriptural command: “ Do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How do these nations serve their gods, so that I also may do likewise?’ You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God.” (Deut.12:30-31) I can only hope that these Philippine brethren were only fantasizing based on Bob’s power of suggestion; any real spirit beings taking advantage of these discernment-numbing conditions were likely to be satanic visitors posing as “angels of light” (2 Cor.11:14).
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Neville, an Australian, divides his efforts between prophetic predictions and reports of new revelation from Old Testament personalities. He is strongly supported by Jill and Sundar, and he has appeared at Sundar’s conferences for several years.
Failed Predictions of Revival
Neville’s prophecies tend to be in the positive direction, mostly revolving around a future revival that keeps missing its cue. While others can fall back on the notion that intercessors caused their negative predictions to be cancelled, Neville’s failed visions of glory cannot be explained away so easily. Interestingly, his supporters seem unfazed by his failures. Following are examples (all typos and punctuation mistakes are his, color emphasis is mine).
“The Year of the Lord” was given for 2007 and is still featured on Sundar’s ministry site:
Seven Years Of Prophetic Declarations
From 1999 on God began to speak through His Apostles and Prophets many clear words of change and coming revival. Many warnings were given; many clear prophetic words of the need for holiness were brought forth. The past seven years have been extraordinary in terms of the prophetic revelation that has been given to the church. Four years ago while I was ministering in the USA the Lord spoke to me and said that He could not bring revival because the church was not ready for it. The scary thing is that the new Christians that you disciple will turn out just like you; like begets like.
So a call to holiness has been one of the clarion prophetic calls over the last seven years, however God will not wait any longer I’TS NOW OR NEVER.
Revival Is Coming And Can No Longer Be Delayed
I received an email from a Pastor friend who shared with me a dream he just had. In the dream the Lord told him that a great City Shaking Revival was coming to his city and it was coming tomorrow. His church staff told him that they were not ready due to lack of administrative preparation, the Pastor said "lets postpone the revival until we can get ready" the Lord then said "NO IT IS COMING TOMORROW" Soon in Gods vocabulary can be quite a way off but tomorrow is very close.
There is no more time for another trip round the mountain as Israel did so many times leaving one whole generation to die in the wilderness - At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release (Deu. 15:1).
2007 - The year of release to those who believe
This prediction is part of a much longer piece with assorted prophecies. It is posted by Pastor Lu Luthra (an associate of Sundar and Bob Misst who attends their conferences)
Sunday, 20 March 2011
The glory of the lord will be manifested in many places around the world this year; this along with the fire of God will be part of the preparation which precedes the harvest.
At Neville’s ministry site, he posted a series of “prophetic experiences” called “Secrets of the Kingdom.” Claimed to be direct communications from biblical personalities like the patriarch Joseph, they tend to be rambling streams of consciousness, general exhortations to holiness, and reminders that Jesus is coming back soon. Interspersed among them are some predictions.
“40 Days of Opposition” (15/jun/07)
We have entered the end of and era and stand poised on the threshold ready to enter the Promised Land, however we have to fight for it....
The church is coming out of a major period of probation and by grace we will enter into the fullness of this new era in God. The Nation of Israel today has just completed a 40 year period of probation dating from the six day war to June 6 th 2007 the church also spiritually has completed this period of probation.
It isn’t clear what was accomplished by this “probation period”, but at the end Neville urges his audience: “ We need to hold steady over these 40 days resisting the enemy and in faith declaring a new day is dawning, a day of great blessing a day of harvest and day of miracles, a day of provision.”
After more than 5 years, the "harvest" and "miracles" are nowhere to be seen.
Here is a report by Jill Shannon of Neville’s prophetic predictions at the Open Heavens Conference in November 2009:
Neville was told by Enoch in a visit to Heaven, “When you see the foundations of the new Temple laid in Israel, you will see the sons of God beginning to come to maturity.” Neville continued to share that the following years will bring unprecedented changes in governments, political systems, monetary systems, banking, and the formation of a world military, a world church, and a world government arising out of Europe. By 2012, things will be very different from the current situation. It will be a “tale of two kingdoms,” the kingdom of the beast system (Rev. 13:1) and the kingdom of God.
This is a relatively safe prophecy, since we know from scripture that these events will take place eventually. But 2012 has come and gone, with all those “unprecedented changes” still to come. Nevertheless, Jill still regards Neville as one of “the most trustworthy prophets on the earth”.
Neville Johnson himself is happy to describe what it’s like to receive these revelations (emphasis mine):
From the desk of Neville Johnson - January 2012
Often I am asked how I receive the visions and dreams that I do, and how I perceive them?…. I began to receive visions and dreams in the early 1970s and they have continued on through the years…. Of course these experiences are not on the level of the scriptures, which are infallible, but they can be very accurate, conveying clear messages from the Lord.
As we see, he gives himself high marks despite several years of missed predictions.
Occult Concepts with Tacked-On Verses
Neville tends to use one-verse support for a body of revelation that is alien to the scriptures, but familiar to the occult world. Consider his interpretation of Proverbs 18:21:
[from a teaching called “The First Dominion”, http://www.theacademy.org.au/training/tabernacleofdavid/ ]
Every word, every emotion, every thought releases a flow of sound, smell, and colour; this energy can only be seen in the realm of the spirit and can be used for good or evil....
Sound is a vibration which operates on various wavelengths. These wavelengths can be either destructive or healing. Words carry either life or death, and have a profound effect on us personally and on those around us....
Fear carries a very different vibration than love. Hate is a vibration that is so strong it can cause the destruction of cells as the vibration passes through our body. Truly life and death are in the power of the tongue.... The tone and the volume can alter the sound and wavelength for good or bad.
Other than the passing reference to the “power of the tongue” verse, this description is nearly identical to those in Reiki healing, Wiccan incantations and Hindu chakra management. (I will not post links to these demonic sites; just do a search using any sentence from the excerpt above.)
We know from scripture that words do not automatically carry spiritual power, even when they are intended to (Isa.28:18, Jer.23:32, 1 Kings 22:11-12). Paul in fact made a sharp distinction between “words of men” and “the power of God” (1 Cor.2:4-5, 4:19-20).
A video teaching on “the morning star” (30/jul/2010) further demonstrates Neville’s strange patchwork of scriptures to create new revelation. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ1kvmMBiow )
He begins by telling a vision in which Jesus told him that the morning star was “beginning to rise”. Connecting two different statements in 2 Peter 1, Neville concludes that God’s people would become “transfigured” in the last days, becoming “the light of the world” literally rather than spiritually. He explains the Lord’s own transfiguration as a “transformation of His molecules” in His physical body, resulting in “a permanent change” that placed Him in a state of pre-resurrection before His crucifixion. “Something inside him reached a critical mass” so that His body could not decay in the grave.
This is what Neville interpreted as Peter’s “sure word of prophecy” (2 Pet.1:19). He adds a prediction (time-mark 23:00) that the natural “morning star”, the planet Venus, would also get “brighter and brighter” in the sky.
The linkage of the planet Venus to our calling as lights in a dark world is poetic but not scriptural, and the prediction of its increasing brightness was not prophetic. Astronomers had already calculated that the brightness of this planet would peak on 4/dec/2010, and then would decrease as it naturally does. (See for example the announcement at: http://www.space.com/9618-venus-shine-brightest-saturday.html )
The peculiar conclusion about Yeshua’s transfiguration causing a “permanent change” that would keep His body from decaying in the grave is both pointless and heretical. It’s pointless because God’s power is more than enough to reverse physical decay (as demonstrated with Lazarus, and promised to us). It’s heretical because if Yeshua was in a “pre-resurrection state” when He went to the cross, how can He have truly and completely “died” for our sins?
An Internet search shows that the association of the Lord's transfiguration with “molecules transforming and reaching a critical mass” has more in common with Harry Potter literature than the Word of God.
A New-Age Gospel
Neville endorses Sundar’s “gospel of the kingdom” and uses the same proof-text, but he redefines it for himself, following his pattern of mingling occult ideas with scripture (emphasis mine):
“Hope, the Need of the Hour” (9/jul/2009)
Two sides of the coin
While we are aware of the prophetic realities of coming judgment and troubles coming upon the earth in these last days and we cannot take these forewarnings lightly, the message of the Gospel is that of hope peace and a fantastic future. The gospel that this generation needs to hear is the gospel of the kingdom. Jesus said that this gospel message would be preached in these last days.
Matthew 24:14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
This gospel message includes hope for a better world, a world of peace, joy, and security, a world without pain and fear, a world where not only there will be no more war but also a world where nature will be at one with humans. It is a message of a bright and wonderful future, this world needs this hope…. This earth is to become a paradise equaled only by that in heaven. This new age is the hope we need to preach in a world drenched in hopelessness.
This “bright and wonderful new age of hope” is “preached” in the same way by countless esoteric teachings, which have a common root in the occult works of spirit-channeler Alice A. Bailey (who coined the buzz-word “new age” and defined both the need and the solution as Neville did). The New Agers expect us to participate in that “paradise” as enlightened divine beings, taking the place of the Messiah and completely doing away with the God of Israel. So does Neville. Note how he redefined the identity of “our Lord”, who is God, and “His Christ”, who is Yeshua (emphasis mine):
Revelation 11:15 - And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.
We need to ask the question regarding this scripture, who is His Christ? The kingdoms of the world will become the kingdoms of our Lord (Jesus) but who is His Christ. The word Christ is the word for anointed, is the Greek word Christos, which means anointed. The kingdoms of this world will become the Lords [sic, Lord’s] and His anointed ones who will reign with the Lord forever.
“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.” (1 Jn.2:22)
Elsewhere in this letter, Neville acknowledged that the New Age movement is working for the same kind of world, but he was confident that the antichrist brand of New Age will fail “when they realize the absolute horror of a world under martial law, they will become candidates for true salvation and a true Kingdom of love and peace.” This “salvation” scenario, which relies on the human desire for freedom rather than conviction of sin, is challenged by the prophecy in Revelation, which tells us repeatedly that men will NOT be convinced by their experience with the antichrist to repent.
It’s important to note that Neville has been urging the church to enter the New Age since 2001, using terms and concepts borrowed from the esoteric religions (italics are his):
January 2001, Prophetic, The Dawning Of A New Age
We are truly entering into a New Age, a new Apostolic Age…. The number 480 has an interesting meaning. It signifies the end of an age in which one is tested and qualifies for, or not, to participate in the new age.
…12, (God’s government) x 40, (God’s intervention or new era)= 480 (new age in God.) We are in the beginning of a new age not just a new era or dispensation 480 signifies in Scripture the beginning of a new age the true and biblical new age….
Dream, Changing Of The Guard
We are entering a new age of opportunity a new reformation let us rise to the occasion and do the will of God in our generation. It only takes good men doing nothing to miss the opportunity of the hour.
Here we see Neville insisting on a specific terminology. Calling it a “dispensation” or “new era” is not enough; this is nothing less than a “new age” – a phrase he repeats on the above webpage no less than 11 times.
Ironically, Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj, who is today promoting a "different gospel", was at that time a straightforward preacher of the gospel entrusted to the apostles, and he wrote of receiving direction only from “the word of the Lord” and “the Holy Spirit”. (see his appeal of 1/jan/2001 at: http://www.worldforjesus.org/articles-prophetic.php?ID=84)
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Maurice is mostly a professional violinist, but he regularly appears at prophetic conferences. He has shared the conference stage with Sundar and Neville numerous times since at least 2009 (see http://www.mychristianmusic.com/events/the-brides-revival-conferencehttp://www.injesus.com/messages/content/243120 )
He has a long list of “prophetic words” and some of them are very specific.
Empty Predictions, both Negative and Positive
The following prophecy contained a mix of worthy exhortations to purity, already known developments (such as the Chinese evangelists traveling the Silk Road towards Jerusalem), and unworthy vain predictions made in the Lord’s name. I list excerpts from a well-known prophetic word showing the latter (color emphasis mine).
[NOTE: If there is a problem accessing Maurice's site, go here for a copy.]
The Preparation Of The Bride (Nov 24 2005)
New York City will receive 3 major judgments before the end of 2008. Each one will be more devastating than the last. One will shake the entire financial world and cripple the once invincible financial power of America. Millions will lose everything in a moment. It will make the crash of the stock market in 1929 look like a little thing in comparison. America will no longer be the financial leader of the world.
Another judgment will destroy a major stadium during a sports event. Yet another explosion will destroy nearly an entire Borough of New York. But for the sake of the Jewish people in New York, I will supernaturally spare them.
After this, I will cause the largest aliyah (return) of My people (the Jewish people) from New York (and other regions throughout the developed world to Israel) in all of history.
Tokyo, Japan. Hong Kong, China. Johannesburg, South Africa. Calcutta, India. Sidney, Australia. Chicago, Illinois. Los Angeles, California. Paris, France and many other cities will experience major catastrophes in the next five years. Millions upon millions will perish.
This is but a fraction of what is soon to come if there is not repentance and turning back to Me.
Maurice pre-empted potential criticism by prefacing this word with a disclaimer: “I want to say emphatically that I believe that it is conditional. If we will pray and intercede, perhaps, many of these calamities can be averted and/or postponed.” But as it turned out, not a single one of these calamities came about, either by “the end of 2008” or any time since then.
NYC didn’t shake the financial world, and while December 2008 saw US financial power weaker, no one pronounced it “crashed” and there were no reports of “millions losing everything in a moment”. There was a NY stock market slump in the winter of 2009, and then it started climbing again. (Here is the long-range picture: http://www.forecast-chart.com/stock-nyse-composite.html )
There was no sports stadium disaster in NYC, and no city borough exploded. Definitely there was no massive aliyah from the USA. None of the cities mentioned experienced “millions” dying between 2005 and 2010. Last but not least, none of these cities demonstrated the “repentance and turning” to God that was required to avert these judgments.
It was only 3 years later, when challenged about these unfulfilled predictions, that Maurice offered an explanation (underlining is mine): http://www.mauricesklar.com/Teachings/Coming_Shakings_/coming_shakings_.html
[NOTE: If there is a problem accessing Maurice's site, go here for a copy.]
The Coming Shakings of Judgment to America (March 15, 2008)
You can read it if you want (just click on “the Preparation of the Bride” prophecy on this teaching page of my website.) Well, much to my surprise, it went all around the world. Many thousands of intercessors began to pray, and I am now convinced that God held these calamities back in His mercy so that we would have more time to get the Gospel out to the nations (especially here in America!). Either this is the case, or I was entirely wrong and just missed it.
If so, please forgive me. I do accept that as a distinct possibility, although I am now more and more convinced that I really DID have a genuine visitation from the Holy Spirit and God’s mercy did indeed intervene and held these calamities back, praise His Holy Name!
A Tangle of Contradictory Statements
As we see above, Maurice apologized and then promptly neutralized it. In the process of justifying himself, he struck down the final statement he had attributed to God: that only repentance would avert these disasters. Then a few paragraphs later, he recycled that previously unfulfilled condition as the requirement to avoid the next round of woes:
The Lord said to me regarding President George W. Bush: “Even though many despise him, I am pleased with him…. But after him shall come a rapid deterioration and the removal - unless there is true repentance - of my blessings that have been taken for granted in the USA for the last fifty years. It has already begun."
Less than a year later, Maurice reversed the prediction yet again, from “deterioration” to “great awakening” – and now God’s mercy required that the disasters come to pass rather than being cancelled.
[from “The Inauguration of Barack Obama” (January 20, 2009)]
[NOTE: If there is a problem accessing Maurice's site, go here for a copy.]
Millions shall come to repentance and faith in Me as they turn back to Me in desperation when the coming calamities shall hit your nation. What you may call disasters, do not look that way from heaven’s viewpoint. They are moments of opportunity to repent and be saved for eternity for millions of precious souls. If I did not allow these things, those souls would be lost forever in the damnation of hell. So watch for signs of the “Third Great Awakening”. It won’t be a counterfeit: it will be a visitation of My glory!
[from “The Coming Threats to the United States of America” (June 4, 2009)]
[NOTE: If there is a problem accessing Maurice's site, go here for a copy.]
I have the unhappy (for me) job of having to report to you what is coming imminently on the horizon in the world. But, I have seen also great hope!
With these terrible events will also come the greatest revival for America that she has ever experienced. With the next major judgment will come an Awakening and repentance that has not been seen for 150 years. Even our government will repent and fall on their faces before Almighty God for a short space of time.
Huge storms, sudden weather changes, earthquakes, volcanic activity, and shifts in the Gulf Stream will cause great destruction and disease here in America and throughout the earth. In the midst of this, God’s last and greatest REVIVAL is coming! Many hundreds of millions will be brought to the Lord. America will hit her knees at the first of these shakings.
It wasn’t specified what “the next major judgment” would be (Maurice had learned since 2005 not to be too specific). But after 4 years of “these shakings” in the form of mega-storms, floods, debts and droughts, there is no sign of “many hundreds of millions” coming to the Lord, or of the Obama government repenting. And there are even more serious problems due to the contradictions.
If Maurice and nearly all those wearing the “prophetic mantle” are right, and intercession repeatedly convinces God to not allow these calamities, then according to Maurice the praying saints are responsible for millions of souls being “lost forever” due to those missed “moments of opportunity to repent.”
On the other hand, if they had repented, would it really have been a “visitation of God’s glory”? That depends on whether Maurice still stood by his 2005 prophecy, which predicted that it would be “a false revival”: [from the above “Bride” prophecy]
There is coming a revival of morality and religion in America as a result of these calamities, but it will be a false one for the most part. God will become popular in the culture, but not the Bible and My name (Jesus). It will be a false gospel message. Not many will truly be born again.
Visions of Vanity
One of Maurice’s longest prophetic words had to do with a visit to heaven, a 6-page description that includes rich sensory details worthy of a novel. But the focus is on objects and their appearances, personal recognition and honor – the sort of thing that feeds the ego rather than the spirit.
[from “A Vision of Heaven”]
[NOTE: If there is a problem accessing Maurice's site, go here for a copy.]
We ascended out through the ceiling of my home and shot up into the air like a rocket…. Soon we were in space and I watched the earth grow smaller and smaller. Then, as I looked out ahead of us, we were moving so fast that the stars became like long streaks of light disappearing into a point in the horizon in front of us. Then, I saw a planet approaching that looked very similar to the earth. The angel spoke, "This is the planet Heaven."
He said, Now, I will take you to hear some of the music of heaven. Then, suddenly, we were standing outside what looked like a concert hall, but grander than any I had ever seen before. We ascended steps to the entrance that was surrounded by columns. There were others coming to the concert, both angels and people. Several bowed towards me and greeted me as I entered, but I did not recognize them.
We sat in a center box seat in front of a large symphony orchestra. I was surprised to see that it seemed so similar to a concert on earth. I even recognized several of the musicians, some I just knew by revelation that they were among the great musicians of the past, and a few I recognized from my life that had died and were already here in heaven.
The angel quietly spoke in my ear. This is a concert in your honor. The composer, Gustav Mahler is here in heaven. He has composed a symphony for you. Then the Lord came out on stage and conducted…
Maurice goes on to describe a mansion with his name on it (down to the details of the front door), the elaborate Japanese garden outside, a banquet room with lavish table settings (gold cutlery, crystal goblets, pearl plates), museum-style rooms holding robes, crowns, mantles, etc, and other vivid sensory experiences.
In short, “Planet heaven” is portrayed in exquisite, mouth-watering details familiar to those who love earthly opulence and exclusive VIP tours. This only highlights the absence of any description of spiritual wealth in its various forms, personal relationships among heaven’s residents, or even what Yeshua does when He’s not escorting Maurice disguised as an angel.
The purpose of this grand vision is mentioned only near the end, when Jesus says: “You must write what you have seen so that My people can know how close I am to the final hour! I AM COMING SOON!"
What is not mentioned is how a truth already stated many times, and clearly demonstrated from solid scripture and current events, was strengthened by a materialistic display that focused on the honors bestowed on Maurice more than on the Lord who is coming.
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Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj /Vincent Selvakumar
Sundar (“Sadhu” is a title that means “holy man”, not part of his personal name) and Vincent are seen together often, they co-direct the same ministry, and they often switched places during a key teaching that I examined, so I will present them here together.
Sundar tends to give all his predictions verbally (available in YouTube clips). So at first I could not locate any written prophecies, other than what others had transcribed from videos. Later I discovered a video recording of his Israel-at-war prophecy, which was given at a conference here in Israel (December 2011), which is analyzed in a different file (Go here: xxx).
But first I examined prophecies by others which Sundar hosts at his own website, using them as a gauge of what he considers valid prophecy.
Promotion of Dramatic but Bogus Prophecies
The first thing that caught my eye was a banner posted prominently on the homepage:
“Prophecy Alert” – 2012 Predictions Happening Right Now & Proven by Scientists!
The embedded link on the page didn’t work. But a quick search turned it up on YouTube. I watched 50 minutes of it (roughly the first half, plus the last 10 minutes).
This film, made in late 2009, built a case for three coming years of unprecedented global destruction, culminating in a 2012 global disaster. The main features of the film are examined in a separate file, available on request - this is a very brief summary.
The “scientific proof” referred to in the title consisted of: (1) predictions fueled by supposed facts which have since proved to be unfounded; (2) misinterpretation of natural phenomena; (3) popular hoaxes surrounding a rumored “phantom planet” called “Nibiru” (or sometimes “Elenin”); and (4) a “prophecy” attributed to “Mother Shipton”, a legendary person in British occultic folklore.
The above disinformation was interwoven with prophecies from the mouth of Jesus, and a call to repent to escape hell, which gave it a superficial resemblance to an evangelistic tool. But since the film was produced by a Catholic group that believes all non-Catholics (including Messianic Jews and Protestant believers) are going to hell, I cannot regard this film as presenting the gospel of the Bible. (Documentation is available on request.)
Evasion of Legitimate Questions
I wrote to Sundar's Jesus Ministry site on 20/aug/12, asking them if Sundar or anyone else had checked this film for prophetic accuracy and spiritual purity. I also asked Sundar what he could tell me about the content of the film and its producers.
Within a few hours of my email, their promotion of this film disappeared from the site. The next day (24 hours later) I got a reply signed by Sundar, asking what my concerns were. I repeated that I just wanted a short explanation of why he had decided to link the film, and in general how he tests the prophets he works with. I have received no reply from him to date.
From 20/aug/2012 until today, the Prophetic Alert page has remained empty, with no explanation other than a note: “coming soon…” (A snapshot of the original page is available here.)
The endorsement of this film was a bad sign for anyone putting their confidence in Sundar’s discernment ability. It was made worse by evasion on his part when asked to explain his endorsement. And this was not the only example.
Although he removed the “prophetic alert” that I had questioned, Sundar’s site contains other equally discredited “prophecies”… or it used to. One authored by his partner Vincent Selvakumar in 2010, predicted killer epidemics along with “a new anointing” on the church of a “magnitude that no one will be able to refute” for that year. It was originally at the link: http://www.jesusministries.org/healinglove_2.php?reloaded=true . Sometime over the last few months it disappeared, replaced by one of Sundar’s own teachings – possibly due to an open challenge by another saint (https://sites.google.com/site/gloryofhiscross/falsegospel/prophecyofvincent ) .
Regardless, Vincent’s original prophecy can still be found on-line, and the failures speak for themselves: http://www.theblazingholyfire.com/prophecy2010.pdf
Proclaiming a “New Era” with a New Legalism
As far as prophecy by Selvaraj himself, I found several that showed a consistent spiritual focus and message. I will limit my presentation to these.
One that was given 20/aug/2011 announced a “new era” for the Body of the Lord in October 2011, closely connected to the Jewish “new year” (sic, Rosh Hashana should properly be “Feast of Trumpets” – it was never designated as the new year by God). This era involves new requirements for the church, which were never seen before and are borrowed from rabbinic Judaism Following are a few quotes (color emphasis mine):
This is the word the Lord gave me to come and share with you - A new beginning is going to begin. The entire world is going to enter into a new season, a new era when this new year begins on September 28. This year, 2011 the new year of the Jews begins on sundown September 28, so that day will signal the beginning of something…..
Yom Kippur will fall on October 8, 2011. After that day, the church will enter into a new season, a new era, like she has never seen in the entire church history. (page 6-7)
I will present more details of this “new era for the church” farther down. First, let’s look at what Sundar teaches as the requirements to enter this unique period of time. And here we find parallels with Jill’s prophecy from the previous year (above). Along with the Jewish tradition of using the days between Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur for soul-searching, Sundar adopts the full burden of rabbinic legalism that goes with it:
Only the blood of Jesus Christ has the power in the entire known universe to wipe away that slate clean. So when you confess your sins, the blood of Jesus cleanses all things. But suppose…one or two just slipped through?
And when the new year begins, when the new pages open, they will look into the past, “Oh, this person has these two unconfessed sins.”…Now when that is written in the new year, judgment will be passed on Yom Kippur day.
So from Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur day, there are ten days in between for you to make your appeal. You see, when a criminal is sentenced to either small punishment or big punishment, he has a chance to appeal, isn’t it? They are given a small window frame (timeframe) that during the window frame, they should make an appeal or they can make an appeal. If after the window frame, they did not appeal, subsequently later, they cannot make an appeal.
Likewise is this window frame, this ten-day window frame, for us to search our hearts and see what, if there be any, remaining sins of the past year, you call to remembrance. Your vows, unkept vows, unkept promises, whatever there remains, you will rectify during the ten days….
God sees you. And then a judgment is passed, sealed. Whatever that is sealed on Yom Kippur day goes for the next one year. It’s very serious, you know. (page 5-6)
As most believers will recognize, this teaching of “a small timeframe” to confess sins negates the grace extended to us through Yeshua’s constantly available atonement, and instead makes the rabbinic, scripturally unsupported Ten Days of repentance into a law observed by God Himself.
But for those who do manage to “call to remembrance” all their unkept promises within those 10 days, Sundar promises entry into this new era. The “power” is characterized mainly by visual manifestations:
I see an angel of God standing in the auditorium right now. And he is testifying that everyone, anyone, who sincerely seeks God, they will certainly enter into this new seasons, into these new times, even before that appointed day. And there are some people here, this angel tells me, who will see the heavens open before you, and angels of God ascending and descending. And your house will become like the tabernacle of Moses, where the glory of God comes down and abides. Not only you, but even your children will see the open vision glory of the Almighty God. Your eyes will also even be opened to even see the Ark of the Covenant momentarily present in your living room. And angelic activity will increase in your house. (page 15-16)
You’re not going to hear just the pastor, the prophet, or the apostle or the evangelist, the teacher who says, “I saw the Lord!” or “I saw an angel!” Not only them but every common person will say, “We saw the Lord!”, “When I was praying this morning an angel came to me.” It will become a very common occurrence. This is how the church will become so powerful before the rapture takes place. (page 19)
Sundar promised to give more details of this “new era” at the prophecy conference a few months later (the season of Yom Kippur). The “Voice of Trumpet Prophetic Conference” did take place over Yom Kippur (October 7-9, 2011), during which Sundar and Vincent took turns speaking. It is not viewable online, but I have taken quotes from a transcript made by one of the pastors who supports them (color emphasis mine):
Materialism and Abuse of Workers
It took a long time for the “new era” to be introduced. The first part of the "Trumpet" conference was spent in admiring the physical features of the facility they were meeting in, and how much effort it took to erect this “prophetic center”. The commentary reveals the character of this prophetic teacher (7/oct/2011, Sundar Selvaraj speaking , emphasis mine):
And the stones that you see on the steps on the stage here. Those stones that are on the side of those steps, they are found in Jerusalem. They are called Jerusalem stones. And I was shown [by an angel] the stage should be placed...should be filled with those kinds of stones.
It was so difficult to get these stones. So our engineer David was trying so hard to get those stones. He went through hell with us. Afterward, I will call him to share his testimony. Maybe he will give up building [as an occupation] after working with us.
He was so humble, so very patient, working with prophets like us. Almost with tears running (from) his eyes, he told me, “So difficult to get these stones, Ayya.” I told him, “If you don't get me those stones, you will be answerable to God.” He became very fearful. And then I personally went to the factory…. So I walked through all the place, looking for the stone that I want. So finally I found the stones. So I called him and said, “I have found the stone. Now you get the masons ready to put the stones on the steps.”
Just as he thought hallelujah, I gave him another big headache. While I was sitting there and calculating how much stones we need, a saint from heaven appeared before me, and he told me, “You must place the stones not only on the steps, but also on the walls around this building.”
Selvaraj goes on to gleefully describe how he demanded impossible deadlines because “heaven” required it; how the construction workers were driven “continuously day and night without sleep for 15 days. Supernatural strength, extraordinary wisdom, and supernatural help were given to them. Many of the team were non-Christians and worked with great fear of God.”
He then compares this work to the building of “the great pyramid in Giza”. Here his source of information turns out to be another prophet under examination here, Neville Johnson (whose failed predictions and strange teachings are featured on Sundar’s site):
I have a dear friend, a prophet living in Australia. He was shown in a vision how Enoch built the pyramid. Hundreds of angels gathered and carried all the stones and laid them one on top of another according to the plan that God gave to Enoch. Likewise in the last 15 days of the accomplishment of this beautiful place…. And I used to see hundreds of angels working together with all these wonderful men to get the job done.
Why am I sharing all this with you? This building is a great testimony of how we work together with the angels for the last days' ministry.
The emphasis on angelic help brings up some logical questions: Why would heavenly helpers drive human beings like overworked beasts of burden, instead of taking over the job so the exhausted men could sleep? How “great a testimony” was that abuse to all the non-Christian workers who suffered or watched?
Anticipating that the Lord’s people would be equally troubled by the materialistic obsessions of the “angels” and “saints,” Vincent Selvakumar, the ministry partner of Sundar, reassured the audience by hinting that he and Selvaraj are not just two ordinary servants of God:
There may a question arise in many people's hearts: We know that the time is very short in the last days. Is it necessary for such a grand building in the last days? We are saying that the Lord is going to come soon. Do we really need such a big place? Even if you may not ask questions like this, others may ask questions. Or he may also ask, what is the necessity for these two men to build a building like this?
We are the two persons who are preaching very fervently concerning the soon coming of the Lord Jesus. We not only speak the word but we also confirm it with signs and wonders following. But not only with signs and wonders, but we also prove it through the revelational knowledge of God.”
Regarding the relentless driving of the workers, which Sundar said was done effortlessly with angelic help, Vincent called it “torture” that was regrettable but necessary:
If you ask every engineer who worked on this building – if you ask them to tell very frankly they'll say one thing: they have never experienced a torture like how they were tortured in working in this building. If we asked them to make a building in three days that will normally require three months, what will these poor guys do? It is not our intention to torture them. It is the Lord who mandated and it must be done.
The justification for this expense is that heavenly beings will be living here:
This is not a place where God's presence comes and goes. This is a place where the angels of God will come and abide permanently. Many Old Testament prophets and New Testament saints are going to come and abide here.… Your eyes will see this being taking place, says the Lord.
Contrary to Zechariah (1:17, 2:12), who prophesied that in the last days God “will again choose Jerusalem,” we are told here that He has already chosen Ramanathapuram… And not “only” will the Lord dwell in this building (represented by angels), but Biblical characters who have died will be taking up residence. In another context, this would be called “a haunted house”.
A New “Holy Convocation” with a Strange Name
Finally Vincent Selvakumar reveals the real reason for “torturing” the construction workers with the impossible work schedule. A new era was about to arrive:
Tomorrow is the day of Metagoshin. God is going to turn over the foundations tomorrow. Tomorrow is the day that God is going to do new things in your life. This is a day designed by God in heaven. That is why we were so fervent to get this building ready before that day.
God is going to come down in this place on that day. The God who comes down will abide here and not go up to heaven. He's going to abide here. Till He comes again, His presence will abide here to prepare the world for His coming.
So according to Vincent, God Himself was to move permanently into their prophetic center in Ramanathapuram, India on 8/oct/2011.
“But what is Metagoshin?” you ask. This is a special word given to Vincent and his co-minister Sundar by revelation, which we will examine farther down. Anyway, the day arrived (8/oct/2011, Vincent Selvakumar speaking, color emphasis mine):
The presence of the Lord is all over this place. Every one of us are experiencing it. The Lord spoke to us last night. He said that nothing that He purposed to do will be prevented. The third dimension work that God is going to do, not other eyes but your eyes will see it. Not tomorrow but today your eyes will see it. This is the time that God is going to open your eyes… In a few moments now, you're going to experience the awesome power of the living God.
Now in spite of the sensational expectations here, this day was not unique. Vincent reveals that this special day had taken place the year before as well (emphasis in the original).
This is what Vincent Selvakumar said in the prophetic conference telecast live on Angel TV on Oct 9, 2010. He was told that Oct 9, 2010 was a METAGOSHIN day. It refers to turning a page in a book. (It seems it’s a word in a heavenly language). A new page was turned in the book of God’s plans on that day. God released [a] new set of plans.
There, in October 2010, a definition had been offered for this strange word. But now, a year later, Vincent remembers the meaning as not just “turning a new page” but tearing up the book (back to his message on 8/oct/2011):
The Lord mandated us to organize a similar conference like this, same date last year. The Lord gave us a very special command that this day should be set aside for the gathering of His people. Many of you gathered in this same place last year. On that day as I was waiting upon the Lord in the afternoon, the Lord spoke to me. He said this is a very important day in heaven. He said this day is called “Metagoshin.”
I told the Lord, “I've never heard this word 'Metagoshin'.” The Lord explained to me that the word Metagoshin means “a new beginning.” I waited on the Lord further. The Lord explained to me further that Metagoshin means the destroying of one and the beginning of a new.”
Selvakumar goes on to declare this strange day a new addition to the scriptural list of the Lord’s commanded observances:
The Lord said, “This is a day foreordained in heaven. Therefore, on that very same day, you must all gather before My presence,” the Lord said. “I'm going to change you from one level to another level on that day. I'm going to upturn your foundation around and create a new foundation. I'm going to change your ministry into a new dimension.
Not only your ministries, but even the ministries in the rest of the world will enter into a new dimension. The day Metagoshin is the day that I will change the old and begin anew.”
Note the repeating theme of a “new / third dimension”, which is mentioned nowhere in scripture. This term is very central to Vincent's message.
For some reason, however, Vincent Selvakumar was not content with the Lord’s explanation of “metagoshin” either in October 2010 or October 2011. He decided to ask an Israeli what it meant:
At the end of last year [December 2011], we went to Jerusalem. There was a concern in my heart. I thought could the word Metagoshin be a Hebrew word? I desired that we wanted to know the real meaning of the word Metagoshin from humans. When we arrived in Jerusalem it was nighttime. We were talking with a tourist guide who was accompanying us from the airport to the hotel. We asked him what the word Metagoshin meant. He said, “There's no such thing as the word Metagoshin.” But he, after some time, he said, “Maybe, but there is a word called 'metago'.”
So we asked him, “What does 'metago' mean?” What he answered us really astounded us. It is the upturning of the foundation stone from one level to the next level. I do not know Hebrew. I did not know that the word “metago” has such a meaning.
The “shin”, it was decided later, came from the Hebrew letter found on mezuzot (which stands for “Shaddai”, one of God’s names). The two were spliced together this way: “Metago means to turn over; shin means the Lord God. So when you add these two words together, Metagoshin means: it's the Lord God who turns over.”
There are serious problems with this ‘translation’. Unlike these Indian brothers, I do know Hebrew, and the closest you can get to translating “metago” in modern Hebrew would be a short form of “meteg shelo”, which means “his advertising brand.” In Biblical Hebrew, the same phrase (theoretically) would mean “his horse’s bridle-bit”. Neither one is even close to the wished-for meaning above.
For the record, I located “metago” with a definition something like that related by Vincent; it’s New Testament Greek (Strongs 3329) and it means to “turn about”, the way a ship’s rudder turns a ship (James 3:4, the only appearance of the word in the NT). That being the case, we could be charitable and propose that he confused Koine Greek with Hebrew… although the steering action of a rudder falls short of “upturning foundations”.
Unfortunately for these prophets, “shin” is not a Koine Greek word, nor is it a word in Hebrew. And while God’s name has been attached to words in the form of “Yah” or “El”, there is no case in scripture or Jewish tradition where God is addressed as “Shin”. So there’s no way to support “metagoshin” as a biblically supported word.
None of this would be spiritually significant, if we were looking at a meaningless, untraceable collection of syllables. However, the phrase does exist in Japanese.
“Metta” means “thoughtless, reckless”.
And “goshin” has several meanings, all of them negative: “misjudgment”, “self-protection”, “wrong diagnosis” or “fallacy”.
Thus, the term “metta goshin” effortlessly translates as “reckless self-protection”, “thoughtless misjudgment / misdiagnosis” or “reckless fallacy”.
Changing Times and Dimensions
Anyway, at this year’s conference (2011), the “turnabout” took on still more nuances – no longer a “new page”, or a “new foundation”, but a “new dimension”, which has strong occultic connotations:
Last year the Lord spoke to us about the turning point. This year the Lord is going to talk about the people who will be time-changers. People are those who will turn people from one dimension to another dimension. I am not talking about somebody else who will be the time-changers. I'm talking about you and me. We are the time-changers who are going to change people from one dimension to another dimension. We are going to bring the people from one dimension to another dimension.
We are further informed by Vincent that Moses “was used by God to change people from one dimension to another dimension. Moses turned the people from one dimension to another dimension.”
Jesus did the same thing: “The Lord Himself was a forerunner to turn people from one dimension to another dimension.” But the “dimension” that He established wasn’t meant to last:
The age of the church came. People began to accept new ministers. They accepted the five-fold ministries. 2,000 years have passed away. Now God needs a third dimension. This is the final and the last dispensation. Now God is going to turn people from the second dispensation to the third dispensation.
You must understand something very carefully. Every time new ministers rise up to turn people from one dimension to another dimension, they will be endued with supernatural power. They will go forth with such a power that the world has not seen before….
But like Moses and Jesus who were rejected, these modern “new dimension” prophets expect many of us to reject them as well: “Whenever God raises up time-changers who will affect history, they were persecuted.”
I know of only one Bible prophecy that refers to “making changes in time and laws”, and it’s not one that any saint would want to help fulfill! (Dan.7:25)
Not surprisingly, no scripture is offered to support God sending “time-changers to turn people from one dimension to another”. On the contrary, Vincent seems unaware of even Bible basics, such as the 400 years separating Moses from “Abraham’s time”:
Among the prophets of Abraham's time, Moses was the most special, because he is a time-changer who will turn people from one dimension to another dimension. The first-fruit ministers who turned people from one dimension to another dimension were extraordinary people.
But as it turns out, all the people present at that conference were “extraordinary” and were destined to bring in this “third dimension”, which (as mentioned above) entitles them to “supernatural power” never before seen:
You are the time-changers who are going to change people from one dimension to the last days' dimension. You're going to turn the people to the last, third dimension. Therefore the Lord says, “Your eyes are going to see the great wonders that God will do in the last days.” You will give command to the clouds…. The power that God is going to do through you , people in all the three dimensions have never seen before. You are going to turn people from one dimension to another dimension. That is why God has brought us to this place.
For Vincent, “dimension” is the term preferred over “age” or “dispensation”. But his enthusiasm got out of hand when he declared that the coming power would surpass “all the three dimensions”… illogically describing the “third” dimension as somehow greater than itself. However, the significance of the “age of the church” being replaced by a new “third dimension”, which will be confirmed with signs and wonders, must not be ignored.
We note here the “metta goshin” (reckless fallacy) of freely exchanging two words that are not at all the same: “dispensation” (a fundamentalist concept of God’s work in history divided into distinct stages) and “dimension” (a scientific term for the physical world, also used in the occult). The “dispensation of grace” is expected by fundamentalist theologians to end only when Messiah’s feet touch the Mount of Olives, at which time the seventh (not third) dispensation begins, commonly called the Millennium. In contrast, “the third dimension” is the occultic concept of how spiritual beings should relate to the physical universe, which is governed by a long list of “universal laws” (see the classic teaching in Theosophy: http://www.spirit-web.org/theosophy/the-universal-laws-and-conditions-of-third-dimension-living ).
The “metta” (reckless) part of this “metta goshin day” was evident in the exhortations that came repeatedly after the declaration:
I see the power of God hovering in your midst. Maybe you may fall down, unable to control the power of God. Maybe your eyes may be opened to see the Lord. Maybe you'll be filled mightily in the Spirit. Look after them, volunteers, so that they do not disturb others…. The power of God is coming. Receive. Receive….
The power has come down. Don't control yourself. The Lord is using you. The power of God is coming upon you. The power of God is falling on you …. If you are watching [the TV broadcast] with the fear of God, on this Metagoshin day, God will bring you into a new time. God will make you as a time-changer. God will raise you as a time-changer. Go with your strength. “It is I who will send you.” Don't control. Don't control yourself.
I leave it to the reader to judge which of the “goshin” definitions can apply to this scene.
After a long while of graphically describing visions in the unseen realm and things that others were presumably sensing, Vincent asked everyone to sit down again, and then continued with a list of revelations. Among these was another promise in the next days of the “new power” which was supposed to have fallen "right now" on everyone:
Either tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, God will ordain a new day for us. God will ordain you with a new anointing tomorrow, especially those who have missed / who have not received today. All those who God will ordain, I do not know how God will lead us but whether tomorrow or the day after, we are going to set them apart and ordain them. God's ministers and I are going to use oil and anoint you. At that time, a new power is going to manifest.
The strangest revelation by far was that the Old Testament prophets were hatching from eagles’ eggs inside a desert mountain, and needed to “mature” in order to work with this exalted group of last-day saints:
These [eggs] are my prophets who have been sleeping in the hidden places. The time has come for them to go forth. In one day they will come out. In one moment, they will mature, they will grow. They have strengthened and have begun to go forth with their wings. They will now mingle with the new generation prophets that have risen up.
Eventually Sundar Selvaraj took the stage. He also spoke of the vision of “Old Testament prophets in eagles’ eggs” and heartily confirmed it… forgetting that for many years these same prophets were supposedly very much awake, taking part in the Divine Council in heaven and visiting Sundar and his prophetic partners.
"Metagoshin" Failure Rate: 100 Percent
Against the background of that spectacle, over which “the angels in heaven were greatly rejoicing to see what was happening”, we now look in greater detail at what was predicted to happen at the above conference.
As early as 20/aug/11, Selvaraj had already announced to a church in New Jersey the “new era” that was to start, with detailed descriptions of the changes that would be experienced immediately. I have greatly condensed the text of Sundar’s teaching; the full version is available at: http://www.communionchurchministries.org/ANewSeasonbySadhuSundarSelvaraj or at: http://www.psquare.org/freebie/Transcription+of+A+New+Season+by+Sadhu+Sundar+Selvaraj.pdf
I quoted briefly from this sermon above, and I repeat here part of my earlier quote to give the context:
So, there is a new season on Yom Kippur day of 2011. A new era is going to begin. The church is going to enter into a new season, a new era after. Yom Kippur will fall on October 8th, 2011. After that day, the church will enter into a new season, a new era like she has never seen in her entire church history….
Now what will the church experience when this new era begins? Six things.
Firstly, there will be a new level of the demonstration of signs and wonders in the church…. Even the dead will be raised. This is not a faith statement from me now – I'm telling you what the Lord Jesus told me.
Secondly, the church will take on a new identity…. The image of the church as an unbelieving church will change. And your hearts will change, your minds will change when the Lord pours out His Spirit upon you.
Thirdly, there will be a great increase in revelational knowledge of God and the things of God. If you read Revelation chapter 10, verse 7, when the seventh angel blows the trumpet, then the mysteries of God will be completed. It will be made known to the world. [sic]
Fourth, there will be a great harvest of souls…. Angels may appear to them in a dream or in a vision or even physically in person and say, “If you go to that church and if you ask the Pastor Fred to pray for you”, or mentioning your name, “You will be healed.”…a great harvest of souls where the angels of God are going to work together with you.
Number five, the spiritual realm will become very, very visible to the believers. No more it will be just someone who is so close to God like Moses or Enoch have open visions and they see God – no, every single believer in the church. You will experience an open heaven before you.
Finally, a prophetic company will rise up from the church… Every person in a family will become a prophetic person. Hallelujah. They will become a prophetic person. That is what God is going to do in this new season, this new era that is going to come…. Every person that is named of Christ will no more be an ordinary believer but you will be a prophetic person.
These major spiritual changes were tied firmly to the date of 8/oct/11, with a distinction made between “before” and “after”:
What you are today is not how you are going to be after two months later. Your life is going to change. Your destiny is going to change. Your future is going to change. Your entire purposes are going to change….
From this point of your time, August 20th, 2011 up to Yom Kippur, October 8th, 2011, you have about two months. During these two months, God wants the church to seek the face of God.
During these days of seeking God, you must ask God one thing – what is your destiny, what is your purpose? Why are you on this earth? ...And you must seek it out. You must find it during this window of time.
For the next two months, seek God like your have never sought God in your entire life. If you will do that, I promise you in the name of the Lord Jesus, before whom I stand, even before Yom Kippur day, you will meet God….
We have a small window of opportunity. Before October 8th, you must get ready to present yourself on that day, so that you may enter into a new season…
All things will become new. We are going to enter into a new season. A new dispensation is going to open in the history of heaven.
The following night, Selvaraj reinforced the date restriction and urged wide publication:
I felt in my heart it is a very, very important message and you are also free to duplicate it and give to as many people as you want. But all this must be done before October 8. This message will be useless after October 8…. The Lord has personally told me, a new season is going to be opened, and a new dispensation the church will enter into. And therefore He told us to conduct this special prophetic conference from October 7th to 10th.
We already reviewed the “special prophetic conference” above, and we likewise saw how Jill Shannon prepared the way for this event with her own call for churches to “present yourselves for an early judgment” within this same two-month time period a year earlier… enabling some to take advantage of an extra “window of opportunity”.
And how did their followers fare in preparing for this “new dimension”? The Philippine church that publishes “Eagle Christian” greeted the year 2012 still waiting for the “new dimension” proclaimed on October 8, three months previous:
Amazingly, it was in the last quarter of 2011 that the prophets declared the coming of a new season and the final dispensation of God’s end-time plan that will usher in the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in our generation!
The whole CLSF seeks to respond to the new season and final dispensation for the last days. The Lord is about to release an unprecedented outpouring of His spirit upon all flesh as He has promised at the end of this present age…
And more amazingly, as of 30/dec/2012 – more than a year later – they were still waiting with the same confidence. In spite of their wholehearted response to Sundar’s message, they were able only to write: “We are at the threshold of prophetic fulfillment in the context of the New Season and Final Dispensation that the prophets declared.”
(see https://eaglechristianonline.wordpress.com/category/event/ )
Introducing a Different Gospel
I will not go into the many stories, visions and claims of angels and Old Testament prophets speaking to Sundar. Nor will I dissect his teaching that the pyramid of Giza was the original resting place for the glory of God, and that it was only because the site became “defiled” that He chose Jerusalem…. You can listen to him at the Open Heavens Conference, Jerusalem, 6/dec/2011 (Sundar Selvaraj starts speaking at mark 55:30) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es6MZCislZM
For the record, this is the session where he shared his graphic vision of Jerusalem being bombed and divided. But our focus now turns to the final day of the Open Heavens Conference in Jerusalem, where Sundar connected this “new era” with the proclamation of a “different gospel” (his words).
Again, I am skipping lots of material and bringing up the most significant statements, with the time-marks noted. (Sundar Selvaraj, 8/dec/11, emphasis mine:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6brCk4D958U
(25:50) “An era has ended and a new era has begun [as of Rosh Hashana 2011].”
(27:25) “We have entered into the last dispensation that God has for the world. There were many dispensations if you read the Bible.”
(29:30) “He [Jesus] paid the full price for the Law and it has ended… He brought in a new dispensation of grace.”
(31:10) “The apostle Paul established churches on the doctrine of salvation by grace, the dispensation of grace… until it cannot be shaken. And from that time to this time, the dispensation of grace lasted. But when we celebrated Rosh Hashanah, just this past October, the church at large entered a new dispensation – a new time era, one era ended, another era began – the last, final dispensation called the dispensation of the last days.”
(32:10) “In this dispensation, what does the Lord require us to do?” [reads Matt.24:14 – “this gospel of the kingdom will be preached…”].
(49:30) “The end will not come until and unless we preach the gospel of the kingdom… Is it any different from the gospel preached by the apostles? Absolutely yes!”
(59:00) And that kingdom, to announce that it is coming – get ready for the coming of the kingdom of God on this earth – that is the good news that we have to preach now. Not just the gospel of salvation, don’t just stop there, go beyond there to also say Jesus Christ and His kingdom is coming again very soon… And before He comes, these are the signs that will take place. That is the gospel, the good news that you and I are called to preach.
(1:42:50) (Rev.14:6) “What is the everlasting gospel that the angel preached? (reads v.7) – It’s not one of salvation by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but he goes beyond that to say, the hour of God’s judgment has come. It’s an announcement, a proclamation. This is the gospel of the kingdom that we should all now begin to preach…”
(1:45:00) “ This is my special commission, to proclaim that these last days have now come, and the days to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom of God have now come… What is the gospel of the kingdom? All the things in Matthew 24… I have put all the signs together to make like a gospel tract to give to the people, in a nutshell so that everyone who reads it will know what is the gospel of the kingdom.”
At the end of his message (1:46:40), Sundar gave a very long “altar call” to help spread this ‘gospel’, asking for help with translating and printing his tract, as well as to produce a multimedia version. He claimed (1:51:00) that the angel mentioned in Revelation (who would be bringing a gospel message to mankind at the end) was present to empower those willing to help in this project.
Since so much effort was expended to promote it, including (1:54:00) a vision of the angel “marking the foreheads” of the willing volunteers, I searched for the “gospel tract” online. There are now 48 translations of this document at Sundar’s site, including Hebrew. (see http://www.jesusministries.org/endtime_tract.php?reloaded=true )
Below is an analysis of the contents in English:
A “Gospel” Without the Gospel
The “Endtime Tract” simply lists end-time events as described by Yeshua in the synoptic gospels. The list gives the events in chronological order. But not “all the things in Matt.24” are included, and what is missing is significant:
1. The Deceitful Prophets
There is no mention of the early wave of false prophets who should have been prominent in no.3 (“Deceivers will arise”). Only Luke 21:8, which doesn’t distinguish between false Christs and false prophets, is mentioned under “deceivers”.
2. The Bringers of the Last-Day Lawlessness
As we know from the scriptures themselves, there are two waves of false prophets: one that tries to mislead God’s people before the tribulation, promoting lawlessness and causing love to grow cold (Matt.24:11-12); and a group coming after the tribulation begins, who are more convincing “with signs and wonders” (Matt.24:22-24, Mark 13:20-22). Paul likewise wrote of an “apostasy” that comes before the “the man of lawlessness” (2 Thess.2:3) who will work with “all power and signs and wonders” (v.9). Only the second wave of false prophets is mentioned.
3. Two Skipped Verses
Mysteriously absent from the tract is Matt.24:11:
10 At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
12 Because lawlessness is increased, many people’s love will grow cold.
Sundar’s list jumps from v.10 to v.12. Among other things, the above-mentioned connection is erased between this early wave of false prophets, who arise during a time of betrayal, and make things worse by increasing “lawlessness” (Greek: anomion) that destroys the love of many.
Also absent is Matt.24:28:
Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures (or, eagles) will gather.
This verse is sometimes assumed to hint at the rapture, but a closer look at the context shows that it refers to those answering the call to “go forth” and gather the elect around a false Messiah (v.24-27). While an eagle in flight is a picture of God and those who trust in Him (Exod.19:4, Isa.40:31), eagles only gather on the ground to feed on dead things (like all birds of prey). Our Lord is certainly not a “corpse” (Gr: ptoma, literally a "lifeless body"), so this cannot refer to Him gathering His elect (v.31).
Why Sundar left this verse out of his signs is an open question; it might be due to his promotion of “eagles gathering” as a picture of spiritual revival.
4. The Way of Salvation
Contrary to the claims of Selvaraj (above) that this “different gospel doesn’t stop with the gospel of salvation, but goes farther,” his gospel doesn’t go there at all. There is no explanation anywhere in the tract of the need to be saved, much less how to be saved. There is no mention of turning from sin, accepting the atoning work of Jesus, or even the most prominent mark of the saints destined for the Kingdom of God – being cleansed in the blood of the Lamb (Rev.7:14, 12:10-11).
5. Repentance that Leads to Life
The final call is to “repent and believe in this gospel,” which is a misquote of Yeshua’s words (Mark 1:15, “the gospel”).
Receiving salvation through Yeshua is the only way to receive forgiveness of sins – and neither sin nor forgiveness is mentioned anywhere in this tract. Therefore the word “repent” can only refer to a refusal to believe the message of this tract: that “Jesus will truly come back in our lifetime.”
The “gospel” which Sundar presents in his message is further confused with the “everlasting gospel” (Rev.14:7) to be delivered by an angel from heaven after the appearance of the Beast. The latter is addressed to the same “dwellers on the earth” who are following the Beast (compare Rev.13:8,12,14). The angelic proclamation is an “everlasting gospel” because it dates back to the beginning of creation, through which people were already expected to know God and give Him glory (Rom.1:20-25). It is only the first small step in turning to the truth; and yet in the plagues that follow, the hearers of that gospel will not repent even that far (Rev.15:9,11,21).
“A Different Gospel? Absolutely.”
Sundar openly declared (above) that his gospel is different from what the apostles preached. Scripture shows him to be correct.
From Acts 2:37-40, 3:18-19, 4:12, 5:31, 10:43, 13:37-38, etc., we know that “the gospel” preached by the apostles was the same to Jews and Gentiles: the Name of Yeshua is the only way to salvation, and salvation means forgiveness from our sins through His atoning sacrifice and resurrection from the dead. They were obedient to the Lord’s definition of “the gospel” (Matt.28:18-20, Mark 16:15-16, Luke 24:46-47, Jn.20:31).
From other verses (Matt.4:23, 9:35; Mark 1:15, Luke 16:16), we know that the gospel Yeshua Himself preached was already “the gospel of the kingdom”. In other words, “this gospel of the kingdom” in Matt.24:14 referred to everything Yeshua did and taught, not just the signs in Matt.24. This fact could not escape anyone with a Bible concordance.
Sundar’s tract therefore presents a different “gospel” from that of the apostles, which carries an emphatic curse (Gal.1:8-9).
The Prophets Supporting This “Gospel”
All the prophets we are examining have shown unqualified support for Sundar since the time he announced his “different gospel”. Jill Shannon, who attended the conference in question, has numbered him among “the most trustworthy prophets on earth”. Bob Misst partnered in teaching with Sundar during that key conference, and has had only good things to say since. Neville Johnson wasn’t at the conference, but he has endorsed the “new gospel” independently. Bob, Jill and Neville all continued to share the conference stage with him (for example, http://www.elijahlist.com/mobile/display_word.html?ID=11079 and https://eaglechristianonline.wordpress.com/2012/05/03/72-hour-worship-warfare-and-intercession/ ).
Maurice Sklar was not at the conference where Sundar announced his “different gospel”; but in answer to my recent inquiry about this “gospel”, his ministry spokesperson avoided the question and just assured me that “Sadhu is a great man of God.”
Sundar’s Gospel Goes Forth from Zion
The above-mentioned “special commission” in December 2011 provided the motivation for his purchase of a house in Jerusalem the following year. The announcement was published early in 2012, identifying his “house of the prophets” as the home base for the Two Witnesses of Revelation, as well as a “supernatural portal” for “heavenly beings” to bring messages from the “heavenly Council” frequented by Bob Misst.
(viewable at http://www.theblazingholyfire.com/the2witnesses.pdf - color emphasis mine)
During their tremendously powerful ministry in Israel, the Two Witnesses will need a physical place to stay. This House of the Prophets that the Lord has called me to establish will fill that need as well as serve several other important holy purposes for their end-time prophetic ministry. From here they will conduct their worldwide ministry. This will be their Command Center to coordinate their worldwide prophetic ministry.
This House will also function as a gateway to the heavenly realm, a supernatural portal not opened to mortals but used by heavenly beings who will be ascending and descending through it with scrolls from the Council of the Prophets in heaven.
This newsletter directly connects the “different gospel” conference with this new venture, and also connects Sundar’s ministry with that of the Two Witnesses (italic emphasis his):
During the 2011 Open Heavens Prophetic Conference in Jerusalem, the Lord gave me two very solemn messages concerning end-time events that are soon to happen in Israel. The Lord also spoke to me to establish a ministry base for Jesus Ministries in Jerusalem. The Lord then went on to tell me this: “You and your television network should be strategically positioned in Jerusalem for the Two Witnesses are going to appear very soon.”
Sundar’s attempt to find a reasonably priced older house was overruled by “a word from the Lord”; since He had ridden into Jerusalem on a donkey never used before, only a new house would do for this ministry. Inexplicably, Sundar disobeyed and settled on a “not very old” newly remodeled house. But the Lord approved it anyway:
As I walked around the house I saw the presence of Angels. They were being stationed in the house as if to safeguard it from being purchased by other prospective buyers. As I waited further on the Lord two very high ranking Angelic Beings appeared before me to confirm that this was the House to purchase, for the Lord has need of it.
On the last day of the 2011 Open Heavens Prophetic Conference, the Lord had moved me to go public with this project, for He said, “I will move upon My people to give towards this project.” So I shared briefly about it. A few people were moved by the Lord and quickly came forward to give towards this project. The few believers who came from Mainland China were moved by God to give quite substantially for this project.
The “public” appeal for the funding of this project was so “brief”, and people “came forward to give” so “quickly”, that none of it appears on the video! (I am told by friends who attended that conference session that other parts were deleted also before the video was released to the public.)
The fundraising letter features a photo of the house (with the ministry’s name plate “attached” to it by Photoshop), and continues:
We need US$1.3 million dollars to purchase this property. This amount includes the cost of the house, taxes, legal fee, additional fixtures, and other furnishings. We have received about US$900,000 to date. Amazing isn't it? The Lord indeed moved His people to give. We need now to raise the remaining sum of US$400,000 by the end of May 2012!
What is the urgency of this project? Saints, the kairos time of God has now come. On Rosh Hashanah September 28, 2011, the Lord God revealed that we have now entered into the final lap of the LAST DAYS, the season that the Bible calls THE FEAST OF THE TRUMPETS (Lev 23:24-25; Num 29:1-6). This season—the era of the prophets no less if we must properly describe it—will herald the soon coming of the Lord Jesus and the earnest preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt 24:14).
This is why at this kairos moment the Two Witnesses are going to make their appearance….
The fact that the arrival of the “new era” at “Rosh Hashana” of 2011 (sic, Yom Kippur…) is still cited, despite the complete failure of the predicted “accompanying signs”, is amazing. But more relevant for us is this man’s teaching about the church leaving the Age of Grace for a “new dimension” marked by pseudo-Judaic legalism, and the “different gospel” which constitutes his special calling.
In light of that departure from sound doctrine, Sundar’s “supernatural portal” for “heavenly beings” should set off alarm bells. It closely resembles the plan of New Age occultism to re-establish contact with wise “heavenly beings” through occultic “gates” and “dimensional portals”. (Search online for these phrases in quotes, and you will see only occultic sources.)
The fact that this is being established as a ministry “particularly in Israel” makes it a matter of concern for the Israeli Body of Messiah and places the problem under the jurisdiction of Israeli shepherds.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
These individuals have endorsed one another for several years. As of now (2/2013), their responses indicate that they all support Sundar’s “different gospel”, and also his attempt to establish a ministry center in Jerusalem. This is a matter that concerns the Israeli Body of Messiah in particular.
In general, it concerns all believers who seek to walk in the prophetic gifts, who look for the Lord’s appearing, and/or who pray for Israel’s restoration. You are advised to repent of any active or passive support you may have given to any of these teachers.
Am I saying that every single thing they teach is wrong, or that a teacher has to be perfect in order for us to learn from him or her? No. But the kinds of errors shown in their teaching – and more important, their “fruits” (fleshly attitudes, unscriptural priorities, refusal to walk in the truth) tell us that they are not trustworthy and should be avoided. The Lord’s people have a clear and balanced mandate in the prophetic realm: “Do not despise prophetic utterances. Examine everything carefully. Hold fast to that which is good. A bstain from every form of evil.” (1 Thess.5:20-22)
Jill Shannon’s ongoing participation is particularly painful, since she is part of the Israeli Body of Messiah, as well as a long-time friend of mine. But “let God be true, and every man a liar.” After approaching her privately about these matters and failing to see any signs of repentance, and with the knowledge that others have also approached her to no avail, I appeal to the wider Body as Yeshua taught us (Matt.18:17). Please express your love by writing to her – and to all these men – and urge them to repent. See their contact information at the following sites:
Jill Shannon - http://www.coffeetalkswithmessiah.com
Bob Misst - www.wlesop.edu20.org
Neville Johnson - www.lwf.org.au
Sundar Selvaraj and Vincent Selvakumar - http://www.jesusministries.org/prophetic_portal.php?reloaded=true
Maurice Sklar - www.mauricesklar.com
Care enough to get involved? Four things to keep in mind:
1. It's important for these teachers, their promoters and their audiences to recognize the cult-like character of their “prophetic conferences”. Read these excellent pieces from Christian groups, which explain the difference between a Spirit-led teaching environment and a flesh-feeding leader practicing spiritual manipulation and abuse:
http://www.charismatic-captivation.com/?p=5 (especially the 33 signs of spiritual abuse)
2. If you find yourself ministering to someone who has been devoted to the teachings of these prophets, be aware of the above-mentioned effects of accepting cult-leadership authority, and the need for patience in the recovery process. Read this first-hand testimony as well:
3. Please remember the admonition of Paul: “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.” (Gal.6:1)
Are these teachers aware of manipulating others? Not necessarily. Maybe they just discovered that it “works”, or maybe their “divine council” revealed it to them. Any of us could come into the same deception in the future, if we compromise our love of the Truth.
4. “Love hopes all things.” By the same token, if these people return to sound doctrine and love of the Truth, if they receive healing and restoration and learn to really hear the Lord’s voice, they may yet become profitable servants among the Lord’s people. With God, all things are possible.
Other articles in this series
The RZ Survey: Responses to the survey, with observations
The survey was conducted during November 2012, shorting before this prediction was due to take place. The responses came in from several countries around the world, and were as wide-ranging as you could imagine. Yet they had some interesting things in common: nearly all were mature in terms of physical age, would be considered elders based on their years in the faith, and held some type of leadership position in the Body. As the trainers of the next generation, how well did they do in testing prophecy?
Implications of the Survey Results
I offer some interesting correlations based on the sample of Body eldership that responded. Did different backgrounds – Bible education, physical age, number of years in the faith, leadership experience – make believers more confident (or more to the point, more competent) in testing prophecy? How did Israeli responses compare with those from abroad? As you might expect, we end up with more questions than answers. But if we are going to meet the end-time prophets in a scriptural way, we need to understand the issues and find solutions compatible with God's word.
The Original “War on Israel” Prophecies
Over the past months, I invested significant time in tracking down the original prophecies that prompted the above announcement. After the survey was sent out, RZ also received a follow-on prophecy which built on the first prediction – and an explanatory letter which built on both of those, explaining why the predictions weren't checking out... followed by yet another longer explanatory letter, attempting to defend the failure using scripture. These source documents are compared with the realities in December 2012 through February 2013. Special attention is given to the popular assumption that God routinely cancels His words given by prophets in response to intercession.
How We Test Prophecy... and What It's Costing Us
Many were curious about how I personally dealt with this prophecy as an Israeli. In order to minimize influencing the survey responses, I tried to keep my own views out of sight. And now that December 2012 is long over, my convictions about this particular prophecy have the unfair advantage of hindsight. But these issues remain relevant and will only get more crucial as time goes on. So in this article, I ponder what I learned while gathering all the above information, how we in the Body relate to prophecies and their authors (compared what scripture says), and starting points for restoring a balanced approach to the prophetic.
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